1842 Election Dispute
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2409. Where do you live? â€” In the parish of Wootton Fitzpaine.
2410. That is close by Charmouth, I believe? â€”Yes.
2412. What was it that you took? â€” ^A house and garden.
2414. In writing? â€” ^Yes.
2415. And signed? â€” Yes.
2416. Mr. Serjeant Wrangham.} What did you occupy? â€” Some land at the
2417. You say a house and garden; did you occupy that? â€” Yes.
2418. When did you begin to occupy the house and garden? A€” On the 17th
2419. How long did you continue to occupy it? â€” Till January the 29th, 1842.
2420 In Part of his farm? A€” Yes. -
2422. Do you know when Powell left the dwelling-house? â€” He left it before that, but on what day he went, I cannot say.
2424. Then when did you go into occupation yourself? â€” On the 17th of
2425. Did you continue to reside with your family in that house? â€” ^Yes,
2426. Did Powell retain possession of any part of that house? â€” Not of the dwelling-house.
2427. Did he retain the possession or occupation of any part of the garden of which you spoke? â€” No.
2428. Those were entirely in your possession? â€” Yes.
2429. And so continued, as I understand you, down to the 29th of last
2430. Where is the house that you took; in what street is it ? â€” Charmouth-street.
Cross-examined by Mr. Austin.
2431. If I understand you, you went into the occupation of a house and
2432. Was that house and garden before that time in the occupation of
2433. Be so good as to tell the Committee what was the occupation of James
2434. What buildings to the house? â€” A slaughter-house.
S437. And stables? â€” Yes. john Milter.
2438. A butcher's shop? â€” Yes.
2439. How much land? â€” Adjoining the dwelling-house? it Mtj ii4Â«.
2440. How much land was he in the occupation of? â€” I do not know how
2441. How much land was there? â€” I occupied 14 acres of somebody else.
2442. I do not ask you that; do tell me what it was that James Powell was
2443- How many acres? â€” I think 14 or 13 of Bailey's, and 23 of Shale's.
2444. Who was the landlord of the house? A€” Shale.
2445. Was not Shale the landlord of all the buildings you have been describing, and the 23 acres of land? â€” Yes.
2446. As I understand you, Powell held all this together before you went
2447. Do you know how long he had been there? â€” No ; I do not.
2448. What business did Powell carry on? â€” He was a yeoman.
2449. I do not quite know what you mean by that? A€” A farmer.
2450. A small farmer is what you mean, is it not? â€” ^Yes.
2451. What was the slaughter-house used for? A€” It was a lumber-house all
2452. And the butcher's-shop? â€” That was locked up.
2453. I think you said one of those buildings, I forget which, was close to
2454. Did it join on to the house? â€ Yes.
2455. And the butcher's shop; where was that situated? â€” That was out at the end of the part of the garden, out against the street.
2456. Did the house stand back from the street fâ€” Yes, a little.
2457. The butcher's shop fronted the street, did it? â€” Yes.
2458. Then behind the butcher's shop there was the garden? â€” ^Yes.
2459. And then, at the back of the garden, there was the house? A€” The house runs backwards.
2460. The slaughter-house was annexed to the house, was it? â€” Yes.
2461. Where was the barn? A€” That was back behind again.
2462. Behind the house, still further? â€” ^Yes.
2463. How far from the house? â€” I do not know; 20 or 30 yards, I suppose.
2464. Was there a court-yard between the barn and the house? â€” Yes.
2465. Now, for the stables? â€” They were joining the barn.
2466. Therefore, there was the shop by the street, then the garden, then the house, then the court-yard, and then the barn and stables? â€” Yes.
2467. Were there cow-stalls, and things of that sort} â€” Not there.
2468. Where were they? A€” A field off from there.
2469. When did you go into the house? â€” On the 17th of March.
2470. Did you take the whole house? â€” Yes.
2471. And the garden? â€” ^Yes.
2472. Did you take that by an agreement? â€” Yes.
2473. A written agreement? â€” ^Yes.
2474. Did Powell continue in the occupation of other buildings and the farm
2475. Did he continue in the occupation of the rest of the property? â€” Yes.
2476. Does he continue in the occupation of the rest of the property up to
2477. You took your part for the dairy purposes, did you? â€” Yes.
2478. You did not want the butcher's shop for that purpose, I suppose? -^
2479. Nor the barn? â€” No.
2480. Nor the stables? â€” ^No.
2481 . Then, if I understand you, Powell continues in the occupation of them up to this time ?â€” Yes.
2482. When did the other dairyman come? â€” December I believe, the day
2483. Before last Lady-day? â€” Yes.
It May 184s.
2486. When did you leave the place? â€” On the 29th of January.
2487. Of this year? â€” ^Yes.
2488. Did not Powell continue to occupy the rest of the property up to the
2489. You do not know that he has ever left it? â€” No, not to my knowledge.
Re-examined by Mr. Sergeant Wrangham.
2490. You say that you occupied the house and garden, and I think you told
2491. With respect to the butcher’s shop, did he occupy that? â€” ^Yes, that was locked up; I had no right there.
2492. That is to say, you did not occupy the butcher's shop? â€” No .
2493. But the question is now, whether Powell occupied it? â€” Certainly
2494. How did he occupy it? â€” He had it in his possession.
2495. Was it locked up during the whole time that you lived in that house?
2496. Did he make use of it as a butcher's shop? â€” No.
2497. Was any business carried on in it? A€” No.
2498. Then, do I understand you that, generally speaking, the shop was
2499. How far is the butcher's shop from the house? A€” It is 120 feet, I
2500. At the extreme end of the garden, is it? â€” Yes.
2501. Abutting upon the street? â€” Yes.
2502. You do not know whether the butcher's shop is rated separately? â€” No, I know nothing about that.
2503. Then, you say there is a slaughter-house, which is used for lumber? â€” Yes.
2504. That Powell retained? â€” Yes.
2505. And that abuts upon the house? â€” ^Yes.
2506. What sort of sized place is that? â€” It is a large place.
2507. What should you say the value of it was a year? â€” Two pounds, I
2508. My learned friend has asked you about a barn and stable, and I think
2509. Do they stand in that court? â€” Not in the first court; in the second.
25 1 0. There is a court at the back of the house? â€” Yes.
25 1 1. Immediately adjoining the house? â€” Yes.
2512. Do the barn and stable stand in that court? â€” No, not in that court.
2513. They stand in the second court leading from that again? â€” Yes.
2514. You tell me the first court is an open court; is the second court an
2515. Is it enclosed? â€” Yes, it is parted with a wall.
2516. Mr. Austin.] Parted fixed what? â€” Parted from the field, and parted
2517. Mr. Serjeant Wrangham.] Is it walled round? â€” Yes.
2518. And so completely separated from the field on one side, and the first
2519. What should you say now is the value of that barn and stable by the
2520. Then I think I understand you, with respect to the buildings adjoining the house, that is the slaughter-house, that you had the house, and he retained the slaughter-house? â€” ^Yes.
2521. And you had the whole of the garden? â€” I had.
2522. Mr. Miller, through the Committee. What was the value of the land
2523. Can you give us about the value, as a farmer, of the land held by Powell, John Miller. and the shop? â€” I suppose it is worth 60/. a year,
2524. Committee.] Besides the buildings? A€” Yes; I suppose it is worth that. >Â« Mty 184s.
shop? â€” No, I do not understand the business.
2526. Committee. What sized shop is it? â€” It is not very large.
2527. What is it worth? â€” I do not know,
2528. Do you think the whole of Shale's land was worth 60/. a year? â€” I suppose it was worth that.
2529. How much did you pay? â€” Some of mine ran on Bailey's land.
2530. You spoke about one of the court-yards being divided by a wall; is
2531. Do the stable and the barn adjoin each other? â€” ^Yes.
2532. Mr. Serjeant Wrangham. Is there a wall that goes all round the court?
2533. Mr. Austin through the Committee. Is there not a way into that court?
4534. From one yard to the other? â€” Yes.
2535. And a gateway into the fields at the other end€” Yes.
(The Witness withdrew.)
Mr. William Hoare was called in; and, having been sworn, was Examined by
Mr. Gtimeyy as follows:
2536. HAVE you got the rate-books? â€”
[The Witness produced the same.]
Mr. John Hodges was called in; and, having been sworn, was Examined by
2.537. WERE you the overseer of Charmouth in the year 1840 ? â€” Yes. Mr. John Hodges.
2538. Just look at the May rate of 1840; you find there an entry of a
butcher's shop, in Charmouth-street, as void ? â€” Yes.
2539.what you find? â€” This cannot be his butcher's shop; he can never
2540. Why not? â€” I do not know, I am sure.
2541. Will you read the entry; did you make the rate? â€” I did not copy the rate; my mistress copied the rate.
2542. Mt. Austin. Is she here? â€” ^Yes.
2543. Mr. Serjeant Wrangham.] Read it? A€” "Powell, James, butcher's shop
The rate of May 1840 was read: " Void; Powell, James, occupier; Powell,
2544. Did you make that rate? â€” Yes.
2545. Is that shop, which is rated there, the shop which stands in the corner of his garden ? â€” Yes.
2546. Facing to the street? â€” Yes*
2547. I observe that the amount of rate is 1s. 2d., is it not?€” Yes.
2548. And that rate is not paid, but is carried out as '' Amount not recoverable, or legally excused," is it not? â€” Yes, " void."
2549. Is that on account of the shop being void that the rate was not payable?
2550. This is the preceding rate of February 1840; is that entry in the
The rate of February 1840 was read: " Void; James Powell, occupier;
2551. Was that also not recoverable upon the ground of the shop being void?
The rate was read : "No occupier ; entered void ; James Powell, owner
2554. This is the rate of November 1840, is it not r â€” I know nothing of that; I was overseer, but there were two overseers.
2555. Whose is that? A€” Lugg's.
The rate of November 1840 was read: against the column of " Occupier;" ** Void ;" ** James Powell, owner ; butcher's shop ; estimated extent, one perch ; gross estimated rental, 3/. ; rateable value, 21. ;" no sum entered
The lUte of February 1841 was read, being the same as the preceding,
The rate of May 1841 was read, being the same as the last, except that
Mr. Joseph Cozens was called in; and, having been sworn, was Examined by
2557. Do you remember his living there? â€” Yes.
2558. Was he living there in July 1840" â€” ^Yes, he was.
2559. Have you seen the premises? A€” Yes.
2560. Do you know a barn and stable in the court at the back there? â€” Yes.
2561. What sort of court is it that they stand in; is it an enclosed court or
2562. A wall going all round? â€” No, a railing in some parts.
2563. So that the wall and railing enclose it Â£ all round ? â€” ^There are two courts.
2564. There is one next the house? â€” Yes.
2565. The bam and stables do not stand in that, do they? â€” ^No, they do not.
2566. Then, do they stand in a court opening from that other court? â€” ^Yes^
2567. Farther away from the house? â€” Yes, with a gate leading into it
2568. Is the court in which they stand surrounded by a fence of some kind,
2569. You say you know these premises; can you tell us in your judgment
2570. No; the stable and barn? â€” Five pounds a year; I should suppose
Cross-examined by Mr. Austin.
2571. Are you a valuer? â€”No.
2572. What is your business? A€” I farm some land and keep a shop.
2573. What is your shop? â€” A general shop.
2574. You know this property, I suppose, well? â€” Yes, I have been through
2575. Let me see if I understand what you mean; there is a frontage towards
2576. Just follow my question, if you please: there is a frontage towards
2577. Is there a butcher’s shop fronting the street? â€” Yes, there is.
2578. Is the line of the butcher's shop fronting the street earned on so as to idx*J9$tpk Cmm be in a line with the garden? â€” Yes. ^. â–
2579. Then, if I understand you, the whole of the front of the street is the Â»Â« MÂ»y ^^face of the butcher's shop and one part of the garden ? â€” Yes, the butcher’s shop faces two ways.
2580. I am speaking now of that which faces to the street; the street front
2581. The butcher's shop has another face, has it, towards the entrance? -*
2582. The dwelling-house is, we are told, at the bottom of the garden? â€” Yes, it is.
2583. Is the butcher's shop situated in one corner of the garden? â€” Yes.
2584. You go down the entry past the side facing of the butcher's shop,
2585. When you have got down to the bottom of that entry, do you come to
2586. Does one end of the house abut upon the garden r â€” It comes close to the garden, the south end.
2587. Is there a slaughter-house? â€” ^Yes.
2588. Does the slaughter-house adjoin the house? â€” Yes.
2589. Is there a communication between the house and the slaughter-house?
2590. You go out of the house by one door and go into the slaughter-house
2591. Is there a piggery behind the slaughter-house? â€” Yes.
2592. Adjoining the slaughter-house? â€” ^Yes.
2593. Just attend to this: you tell me you get to the house by going down
2594. When you have got to the bottom of that, do you go into a sort of
2595. In that open space have 'you access to the house, the slaughter-house
2596. The piggery adjoins upon the slaughter-house? â€” Yes.
2597. Then, in that open space which you go into by the entry, there is access to the dwelling-house and slaughter-house, and one side of the piggery abuts upon it, does it? â€” Yes; the piggery is round behind.
2598. You used the word just now that it joined the slaughter-house? â€” Yes.
2600. Is that enclosed round with a brick-wall ? â€” A stone-wall.
2601. Is the stone-wall on one side of that yard carried on nearly up to
2602. Now, I think I can make you understand it: suppose you were going in
2603. On the right-hand side, is there a stone- wall or a fence belonging to Mr. Bullen? â€” There is a stone-wall.
2604. You go between those stone-walls till you get into the first open space? â€” ^Yes.
2605. Then the stone-wall continues on the left hand through the next yard?
2606. Then you go into the yard where the stable and barn are? â€” Yes.
2607. That runs on the left to the bottom: â€” Yes.
2608-9. Now, if you please, I will trace that stone-wall to the bottom, where the barn is; does that tum round and separate the barn from the field? â€” ^Yes; there is a separation there with a gate to lead into the field.
2610. Just come back again on the right-hand side; how far does the stone-
2612. If this long wall on the left-hand side the one you speak of? â€” Yes.
2614. That, the piggery? â€” Yes; there is another house there; a 'hanging-
2615. Is that a rough representation of it? â€” Yes.
2616. Is that long line down to the open fields an unbroken stone-wall? â€”
2617. Is the third yard separated from the other yard by a gate in that way?
2618. You have told me that the slaughter-house and the piggery are in the
2619. There is no building in the second yard but the piggery? â€” ^No, except a shed; I think there is a shed.
2620. Then you go through the other gate into the third yard, and there you
2621. Beyond the barn? â€” Yes.
2622. My learned friend has asked you as to the value of the stable and bam
2623. Do you include the shed at the end of it? â€” Yes ; I do not mean the
2624. What is the value of the slaughter-house? â€” Perhaps 40 Â«. a year; I do not know what it might be.
2625. And the piggery? â€” I cannot say much about the piggery, I am sure;
2626. What do you say the butcher's shop would be worth by the year? â€”
2627. What is the value of the second yard and the third yard by the year;
2628. I did not ask anything about that, but the second? â€” ^The yard and
2629. What did you mean when you told me the piggery in that yard was
2630. Do you mean to swear that you included the yard just now, when you
2631. You said it might be 5s. or 6s; do you mean that you included the
2632. You mean to say that that yard might be worth as little as 5s. or 6s. ? â€ Five or six shillings, or ten.
2633. That you mean to tell the Committee, as an opinion of yours, that that yard and piggery may be worth as little as 5s. ?â€” No, I do not say that
2634. What is the lowest that you will tell the Committee they were worth? â€” Ten shillings.
2635. What did you mean by saying 5s. or 6s. just now? â€” I had not given it a thought
2636. Do you mean, then, that you gave evidence carelessly? A€” Five or six shillings, or ten shillings, I said it might be.
2637. I now ask you, if you will venture to tell the Committee that the
2638. Will you venture to say they are not worth more? â€” Yes, they may be
2639. What is the value of the third yard? â€” I include the yard and the stable in the 5s.
2640. You mean to say that the whole occupation is only worth 5s.?â€” Yes ;
2641. How many stalls are there in the stable? A€” I do not think there are any stalls in it ; it was opened for me to see it ; 1 billeted soldiers there.
2642. When were you in it? â€” I forget how long; the early part of April;
2643. This last April? A€” Yes, or the beginning of May.
2644. How many horses would it hold f â€” I think we put four soldiers* horses there; it is in a very dilapidated state, the barn and stable are at the present moment Ut. Joseph Cozens.
2&45. Do you know how much land there is connected with the farm? â€” ^The
2646. What would you say was the value of that land? â€” ^The land, I should say, 3/. an acre, or 50*. an acre; 60/. or upwards I suppose; I would not mind taking it at that money.
Re-examined by Mr. Serjeant Wrangham.
2647. I am afraid I must trouble you once again about this plan; I understand this at the upper part of the paper here to be the street? â€” Yes.
2648. Then the entry is at the left-hand comer of the premises? â€” ^Yes.
2649. And you go down, having the butcher's shop on your right hand? A€”
2650. Then you go down this entry along the side of the garden? â€” Yes.
2651. A fence, is it? â€” A thorn hedge.
2652. Till you come into the open space where the house stands? â€” Yes.
2653. And the slaughter-house adjoins the house? â€” ^Yes.
2654. Then, when you come to the far end of the slaughter-house there is a
2655. Do you recollect what that be? â€” A gate.
2656. Committee. Is there a passage between the front and the back, or are
26.57. Mr. Serjeant Wrangham. Going from this garden to this yard behind
2658. There is a gate from the garden into this open space where the house
2659. And you go round the house into the yard behind the house? â€” ^Yes.
2660. If you want to get into the part behind the house, that is what my
2661. Or you can go through the house? â€” ^Yes.
2662. Is there no door from the house into the garden? â€” ^There is but one door to the house.
2663. Is that into the garden? â€” It comes out into the space, and then goes into the garden.
2664. At the end of the slaughter-house you come to a fence of some kind,
2665. And that leads you to the yard at the back of the house where the
2666. In the piggery which adjoins the slaughter-house stands that second
2667. Passing through that second yard, you come to the fence which seperates the second yard from the third yard? â€” You do.
2668. What is that fence? â€” A stone-wall at each end, with a gate in the
2669. And that lets you into the third yard, on the left-hand side of which
2670. From which there is a gate going out to the field at the back? â€” Yes*
2671. You told my learned friend that as you go into the entry there is a
2672. Which 1 think you said belonged to the upper premises; whose are
2673. On the other side how is the garden fenced; on the right-hand side ;
2674. Part of Mr. Bullen's abuts upon the garden? â€” ^Yes.
2675. So, that that wall of the garden is the wall belonging to Mr. Bullen's garden? â€” ^Yes, up as far as that dairy-house.
2677. So far as regards the front of the house towards the street; now, from the back of the house you say a wall continues down to the field? â€” Yes, it does.
2678. Is that a stone-wall? â€” Yes.
2680. Is that a wall all the way down, or is any portion of it a building belonging to those premises? â€” There is no building on Mr. Bullen's side of the wall after you have passed the house.
2681. You have been asked the value of the butcher's shop; have you been
2682. Have you ever seen it open? â€” I do not think it was ever made any use of since it was built; very little, if it was.
2683. Have you ever seen it open, and seen it used as a butcher's shop? â€” I do remember; it might have been.
2684. I am asking of your recollection? â€” No, I do not remember; it is
2685. What is the size of the piggery? â€” I am sure I cannot recollect the size of it; I know there was a piggery there.
2686. Nor, I presume, do you know who occupied it when the dairyman was
2687. And the yard belonging to it ? â€” Yes. }
2688. Is the yard in which the piggery stands useful only for the purpose of pigs running in the yard ? â€” Yes ; I have seen corn-ricks there occasionally.
2689. purpose of pigs running in it ? â€” Not when ttie emu is there.
2690. And I suppose the corn is not there when the pigs are running there I
* The Witness withdrew. -
John Miller was again called in; and further Examined by Mr. Serjeant
Wrangham, as follows :
JoknMiOer. 269 1. WE have heard of the piggery adjoining the slaughter-house? â€” ^Yes, that is it.
2692. Who occupied it when you were there? A€” I did.
2693. What is the size of it; how many pigs would it hold? â€” Just a little square place for about one pig.
2695. Did the pig promenade in the yard belonging to it; did he run about
2696. Had you any other pigs besides that? â€” Yes.
2697. Where did they run? â€” Out in the yard.
2698. The yard where the piggery stood? â€” Adjoining the yard; they could
2699. You had the run of both yards? â€” Yes. .^\
[The Witness withdrew.
Mr. William Dawson was called in; and, having been sworn, was Examined by
Mr. fir. Damon.
2701. Do you live at Lyme? â€” No ; at Exeter.
2702. Have you had occasion to value property in Charmouth-street, belonging to James Powell? â€” I have.
2704. And those premises among others? â€” ^Those among others.
2705. We are told that there is a yard some distance behind the house; in
2706. Have you that present to your mind? â€” Yes, I have.
2707. Will you tell me what is, in your judgment, a fair value by the year^ to let, of those premises; the barn, stable and shed, with the yard? â€”
2708.There is a butcher's shop at the comer of the garden? â€” There is
2710.Have you reason to think that that is a fair or an excessive or too low
Cross-examined by Mr. Austin.
2711. When did you look at these premises for the purpose of giving your
2712. Have you not seen them since that time? â€” Yes; I walked through
2713. When? A€” Three weeks ago.
2714. Was it three weeks ago you saw them for the purpose of giving your
2715. Did you go through the yard? â€” Yes. ^
2716. And saw the buildings? â€” Yes.
2717. I want to have your estimate a little more in detail; do you include, in your estimate of 4/. or 5 /., the slaughter-house, the second and third yard, and the barn and shed in the third yard? â€” ^No ; the slaughter-house was attached to the dwelling-house, if I recollect right.
2718. You did not include that? â€” No.
2719. Will you be so good as to answer me this question: what in your